tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post6981496536032034442..comments2023-10-31T07:23:17.922-04:00Comments on The Theos Project: Coke is It!Jonathan Erdmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-73365834121343267112009-07-14T17:01:48.010-04:002009-07-14T17:01:48.010-04:00We just all need psychotherapy.We just all need psychotherapy.Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-56728191492574020042009-07-14T13:54:10.952-04:002009-07-14T13:54:10.952-04:00Jon,
Yeah, I think a lot of people react that w...Jon, <br /> Yeah, I think a lot of people react that way. Or we feel guilty if we're <i>not</i> worrying because maybe that means we don't <i>care</i> about the bad thing we couldn't have prevented anyway. <br /><br />And people think you <i>should</i> worry. If you don't worry people (guys) think you're heartless or apathetic (girls wish that they had your confidence - utterly absurd, but a lot more pleasant). <br /><br />But on the unconscious level...well worry starts out like an alert. <br /><br />Example: Last night Robin and I were walking home when she realized she'd left the stove lit. <br /><br />Well, that was worry. Unattended stove equals bad. <br /><br />But after that gut reaction she had choices.<br /><br />1. Freak out. Talk whole way home about how horrible burning houses are, imagine the dog as barbecue, cry. <br /><br />2. Run! Run, run, run! Maybe we can get home in time to salvage part of our home!<br /><br />3. (our choice) Keep walking. The stove's not gunna turn itself off (actually, neither did we, we made dinner). <br /><br />Now, for some people I think what happens is that worrying becomes <i>such</i> a habit that they've stopped considering their options.<br /><br />Example (I like examples): As a kid I was a serious nail biter. I bit them in my <i>sleep</i> I was so bad and half the time when I was awake I didn't even notice that I was doing it. I didn't think about it. I didn't weigh my options, I just did it. <br /><br />Later in life my grandmother bought me a manicure set and I realized that those work much better when one <i>has</i> fingernails. But just as I chose <i>then</i> to stop, somewhere along the line I chose to start, it was a conscious thought. <br /><br />I don't know a lot about panic attacks, but from what I've read they stem from a person's (usually unstated) belief that whatever panics them is worse than <i>any</i>thing. Throwing-up, unconsciousness, death - anything. And they react with actions that will prevent them from facing it...so strongly that their entire body is involved. <br /><br />And while, yeah, you have to deal with the physical problem <i>immediately</i> (hard fixing the emotional if they're on the ground dry-heaving), that problem isn't going to go away entirely until the other is dealt with.Melodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10071513255237535104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-90736595500163554722009-07-14T12:34:49.584-04:002009-07-14T12:34:49.584-04:00Melody,
I think you have something here. Personal...Melody,<br /><br />I think you have something here. Personally, I sometimes get irritated or anxious, believing that the energy of being anxious will help me solve my problem. But this is not at all at the conscious level. When I look at it at the conscious level I usually come to the conclusion that worry only drains my energy all the more, that anxiety is self-defeating.<br /><br />So, what is it that is at work in the non conscious level?<br /><br />I'm thinking that there may be other options. A range of possibilities.<br /><br />What if anxiety is just some people's defense mechanism?<br /><br />Or, perhaps it is just the grounding response that people have used to cope with life? Kind of like a familiar coping mechanism. <br /><br />Or, for some people, anxiety reaches a level where it is a purely physical phenomenon. Like when people have "panic attacks": their breath shortens, they feel like they are going to suffocate, etc. In this case, it seems like treating the physical symptoms is important. Then one can talk about the psychology and spirituality that is leading someone into such intense anxiety....which, again, will probably take us into non conscious levels of thought.Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-79784721055257810082009-07-13T16:34:51.267-04:002009-07-13T16:34:51.267-04:00Jon,
I don't know if everyone out there is c...Jon, <br /> I don't know if everyone out there is consciously weighing the pros and cons of worrying versus remaining calm, but on some level they believe there's a benefit to it or they wouldn't do it. <br /> <br /> Personally, yeah, I do that. I figure out if worrying will be productive and if the pro of productivity out-weighs the con of the stress. And then I decide. <br /><br />But I'm not everyone.Melodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10071513255237535104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-82523617212413677562009-07-13T15:29:25.108-04:002009-07-13T15:29:25.108-04:00Melody,
Are you suggesting that people go through...Melody,<br /><br />Are you suggesting that people go through a rational or cognitive thought process with these things? Like the guy who worries things to himself that his worrying will help him?Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-73440000730310826872009-07-13T15:17:39.661-04:002009-07-13T15:17:39.661-04:00Anorexia is probably a bad example for desiring no...Anorexia is probably a bad example for desiring nothingness...since it's almost always about control. <br /><br />http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/anorexia-nervosa-000012.htm<br /><br />Also, a lot of people who are anorexic have a chemical deficiency and when they starve themselves their brain makes more of the chemical (serotonin - I think) and they get a high (yeah, like drugs) so that probably helps keep them anorexic. <br /><br />That's also true of kids/young adults that self injure. The chemical imbalance thing. Not the perfectionism. Kids who SI generally use it as a coping mechanism for...well anything eventually, but starting off it's for stress, anger, sadness. They're usually bad at identifying/expressing emotions.<br /><br />That's even more recent than anorexia and goodness knows who first stumbled across injuries as anti-depressant, but it's become pretty wide spread in the last 10-15 years. <br /><br />End Lecture. <br /><br />Anyhow, people want what's bad for them because they think it will be good. <br /> <br />That simple. <br /><br />Even take something weird like...worrying. Worrying sucks. It's <i>never</i> good. But people people feel like they're being proactive when they worry. And proactive is good. So they worry.<br /><br />Ok. Done. Really.Melodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10071513255237535104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-63641407840282688362009-07-13T14:26:12.036-04:002009-07-13T14:26:12.036-04:00Fantastic post, Jon. Great stuff, and lots of it....Fantastic post, Jon. Great stuff, and lots of it.<br /><br />There's so much that bears addressing, but I'll try to stick with the line of comments already started here. Yeah, as John and Melody pointed out, people do develop a taste for Coke and their bodies genuinely desire Coke specifically, and will accept no substitutes.<br /><br />So but then, the question is: what factors are at work that make us desire what is bad for us, what is counter-productive to our bodies and souls, etc., etc.? <br /><br />Which is what your post was addressing. Coke is just one example, though a particularly potent example, since it's so goddamn prevalent and such a cultural definer. <br /><br />I would ask you to step even further back and address (maybe in an upcoming post)--what is it inside of us that is so suseptible to this whole desiring desire, desiring Nothingness, etc.? What the heck is going on here? What would inspire anyone to desire Nothingness? It's my understanding that anorexia is a rather contemporary illness. So, what happened biologically or ecologically or culturally to produce such a disease (I'm using anorexia as an example of the desire for Nothingness, as you did)?tamie mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10273116686980623819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-20517817870870213792009-07-07T11:04:07.330-04:002009-07-07T11:04:07.330-04:00No one advertises Faygo. Or Dr. Thunder. I only se...No one advertises Faygo. Or Dr. Thunder. I only see the occasional spot for Fanta (and by I occasional, I mean: I think I saw one once) but that stuff is globally adored. <br /><br />Coke doesn't advertise because they have a product so icky that they can only sell it if they make drinking toxic acids and corn syrup a life-style choice. They advertise to assure you that they sell the <i>best</i> toxic acids with corn syrup and to secure a stigma to Sam's Club Cola drinkers everywhere. Cheapskates, <i>they</i> didn't buy <i>the real thing</i> (which is just, by the way, an incredibly clever tag line). <br /><br />And they have to make sure people remember them and remember how much they love Coke <i>specifically</i>. If they didn't advertise their customers would keep drinking Cola, but they might be more easily swayed by the next upstart cola company with a clever jingle (like Pepsi, lesson learned).Melodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10071513255237535104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-79619274928188259992009-07-07T09:42:28.053-04:002009-07-07T09:42:28.053-04:00But John,
Without the advertisement, do you reall...But John,<br /><br />Without the advertisement, do you really think you'd drink the stuff???<br /><br />If Coke could cut advertisement and still have the same amount of people drinking its product, I think it would do so.<br /><br />It probably would not cut the price though!Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-54557642640426435692009-07-07T06:19:50.035-04:002009-07-07T06:19:50.035-04:00Maybe sometimes a Coke is just a Coke. It's fu...Maybe sometimes a Coke is just a Coke. It's funny, but caffeine-free diet is my personal favorite Coke mutation. I like the taste, the fizz, the calorie-freeness. I just think it's a ripoff price-wise, since the ingredients probably cost less than the can. Get rid of the advertisements telling me how great it is, convert the money paid to ad people into price reductions, then as an occasional Coke-drinker I'd enjoy the product even more. Still, on most days I'd prefer a beer or a glass of wine...john doylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05484728969355294193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-44782938000570076512009-07-06T17:12:51.920-04:002009-07-06T17:12:51.920-04:00Melody,
One might also speculate that Zizek was o...Melody,<br /><br />One might also speculate that Zizek was once addicted to Coca-cola, and as such attacking the wretched soft drink with a vengeance, for stealing fifteen years of his life!<br /><br />I think that people do desire the flavor, actually, but I still agree with Zizek that there are deeper psychological forces at work. I also think Zizek would agree that most people who now drink Coke really do find it tasty. They even find it refreshing. But his analysis is psychoanalytic: what's the real force that is turning an otherwise bitter and non-thirst-quenching drink into something that so many people find both tasty, satisfying, and refreshing?<br /><br />So, the refreshment that people find when they drink Coke really is <i>real</i>. But Zizek's point (and I tend to agree with him) is that the ultimate cause/reason they find it refreshing has nothing to do with the drink itself, it is a psychological factor.<br /><br />Even more important is that even if everyone's love of Coca-cola is purely for the taste of the stuff (that is, you and I just don't get it: the stuff really isn't bitter and it really does quench the thirst, despite all biological evidence to the contrary), even so, I still think it is helpful/legit for Zizek to use Coke to illustrate psychological forces at work in our hyper-consumeristic society.Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-6640549808849902642009-07-06T16:59:22.680-04:002009-07-06T16:59:22.680-04:00What if Zizek just doesn't like Coke?
He thi...What if Zizek just doesn't like Coke? <br /><br />He think it's gross, therefore the only reason anyone drinks it is because they have been duped by clever advertising! <br /><br />I can see that, sometimes people border on cultist with their beverage of choice. Just tell someone you hate Coke (I do, I loathe it, Coke, Pepsi, Sprite, Mt. Dew...vile) and watch their face - you could easily believe you just offended their religion or their mother!<br /><br />But, mostly, mostly I think people like the flavor. They enjoy it, so, that's not <i>nothing</i>.Melodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10071513255237535104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9242710.post-18460131862180739522009-07-06T13:02:26.704-04:002009-07-06T13:02:26.704-04:00The last video montage was brought to you by Coke ...The last video montage was brought to you by <a href="http://www.coke-art.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Coke Art</a>, a short-lived blog, but a blog with a nice history of Coke art. If you go back to the earlier posts, they track some of the early Coke art. Very interesting.Jonathan Erdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.com